In first place thank you very much for putting the link to my TS Elections web page on your blog.

And secondly, I would like to inform you that I have created an additional web page in regard to the Elections statistics which is dedicated to its comments. So, I kindly invite you and members of your blog to add your own comments and thoughts.

Warmest regards to all,
Anton Rozman

Of course nobody should resign. Mentioning resigning was just an expression of disappointment. I am disappointed, because a healthy organization wouldn’t have the same leader for 30 years and because I strongly fear that the current situation will prevail also during the next presidential term.

I feel frustration also at this moment, because I am seeing signs how hopelessly old-fashioned Society we have. Not any organization is perfect, but the TS could so easily be very much better.

One sign is the web pages. Why is there not any announcement about the election results at Adyar web page? Why are those pages updated only once or twice a year? Aren’t there hundreds of thousands of computer nerds in India, the most in the whole world? I know that the Sections announce the results to their membership by snail mail, e-mail or at least via their magazines, but are we not an international Society?

The effective web pages would be important also outside. How can we hope that the TS would appear in the ordinary news, if the administration doesn’t announce itself?

It is Radha’s old-fashioned administration which is asleep. It has a big attitude problem in communication. I have seen that it doesn’t listen to individuals and Sections enough. It obviously thinks that the web pages are not very important. Colonel Olcott would not have slept this way.

There is an international publicist, Conrad Jamieson, in the TS. Why don’t we ever see his name anywhere in announcements?

Most members should be happy now because 2/3 voted for Radha. I am not, but the theosophical work will continue. Sorry for my complaining.

I’m tremendously grateful to all those on this forum who sought to elevate the discourse and engage in serious conversation about age, Adyar, the future of leadership, technology, etc.

I very much hope that even as the allure of a good scandal subsides and we’re all left to continue on with the real work of theosophy, those of you who have contributed here continue to stay engaged with these issues.

We all have a lot of work to do!

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-4067708722976351421&q=burnier&ei=mdhVSPyfEIakwgPi1bT_DQ&hl=en

About fresh blood in the TS. I think – and I am not at all the only one who thinks this – that Radha is greatly responsible for the current unhoped situation where we have to choose the president between 78 years and 85 years old candidates. Her responsibility and mistake is that she has not stepped aside from power when it was a high time to step. I critizise her in the same time when I respect and admire her teaching on everybody’s self-knowledge.

There have been younger alternatives for the international president already earlier. For this election there would have been, for example, C.V.K. Maithreya from India, Linda Oliveira from Australia, Terezinha Kind from Brazil, Vicente Hao Chin Jr from the Philippines, and Tran-Thi-Kim-Dieu from France. All are very capable leaders. I have a knowledge that many European Sections have longed for a fresher international president for years. They regard also Algeo (78) too aged. But because Radha changed her mind and decided to run for the candidate once again – it is totally ridiculous and sad; maybe the reason for changing her mind is that P. Krishna said no – the General Secretaries thought that Algeo is the only one who can challenge Radha, and that is why they nominated him.

Radha is not of course responsible for what happens in the Sections and other areas. Also there old leaders should think more about the future leaders and the state of the TS. If you are 70 or 80, the fact is that you don’t understand all realities which younger people live among.

I recently read in a newspaper that in one European country an only 32 years old woman was elected for a leader in a big political party. In the TS, you are “occultly” a null if you are under 60!

I have understood that some people who voted for Radha did it because she is the Outer Head of the Esoteric Section. They say it is possible that the Masters are wishing her re-election! I think mixing the ES with the TS is wrong, and the international president should not be the head of the ES. It wasn’t the case during HPB’s time.

It will be interesting to hear the election results. It is clear that a huge majority in my Section in a western country has voted Algeo.

Those who are{rightfully} nostalgic about Adyar.

http://www.austheos.org.au/magazine/NormaSastry.htm

Thank you for your polite mail and kind words.

Chris:
K, you wrote that John must “overcome the personal limitations and attachments{to his place and relations} and work for the welfare of TS.”

That is exactly what we all need to do.

K:
Good point…

Lets do it but gradually.

If we do it now , its Is like moving Vatican to Geneva.

Yes we need to overcome the attachment to places as well.
But we are talking about relocating TS which has a history of over a 100 yrs in Adyar …Its like moving a huge banyan tree, to another place.

Its not totally Not Feasible idea…
It can be done but let a proper ground be prepared before the materialisation of the thought of replacing the HQ
to another location take place.

The relocation issue, had it been pursued, say , in 1998,would have made things easier for everyone concerned with adyar/it would have taken care of the sentiments of hundreds of TS members who are concerned {and not attached} about the TS at Adyar.

Having stated thus , It is a fact that the future of TS at Adyar, incl minor{?} things like maintaining the Garden of rememberence, will come to a standstill {not to mention the maintenence of huge collection of books etc}if there is no living “authority”to take care of its premises.
We are talking about India and not Birmingham palace.

Just like we cant choose our parents , likewise, we cannot rewrite the history of TS Adyar.
It has a great histroy , it is the pride of TS and has many memories of its founders. Some things cant be changed owing to their historical value …can we imagine the temple of Lourdes being relocated to New York?

A fact that cant be overlooked as it affects a commoner:

It is also a fact that travelling to India is much easier for a middle income earning European or American member of TS. A middle income group Indian member of TS will find it hard to attend a seminar or the like if it is held in the HQ located in another country.

My 2 cnt:

Why cant they have 2 presidents , one for the USA /Europe and another for the south East Asian countries.

And maybe we can hope that in another 7 years time they {R and J} can work towards merging the so called gap between east and west owing to more advanced technology and the like.

Radha Burnier resident of TS , South East Asian region.

John Algeo : President of TS , UK/USA

Both can plan to work towards moulding young leaders for the next election {which they unfortunately didnt do it 7 years back}

Stability , not attachment , is vital for growth…

Quote: I never saw a discontented tree. They grip the ground as though they liked it, and though fast rooted they travel about as far as we do. They go wandering forth in all directions with every wind, going and coming like ourselves, traveling with us around the sun two million miles a day, and through space heaven knows how fast and far! ~John Muir”
unquote.

Best rgds
K

PS: My views about the on going discussion are like flowing water , they are evolving in respose to the members comments / views/ Ive No intention to be a cat on the wall!
And I am not speaking on behalf of anyone.

Before I begin my counterargument, please allow me to first say how much I appreciate your comments. As I have said repeatedly, my hope was that this site would be a forum for open-minded, respectful dialogue about the issues, and that is exactly what you are providing. Thank you.

First, I would never imply that Radha is attached to power. I don’t know Radha, but I have no doubt that all of her actions are based firmly in her convictions about what is best for the T.S., and that resolve should always be respected and applauded.

Now, I said that I had yet to hear a non-provincial argument, and yet you countered with an extremely provincial argument: the essential importance of Adyar. I do not believe the T.S. is synonymous with Adyar. And in fact, I think for it to become so would be very dangerous.

Adyar is impermanent. All places are, all people are. The T.S. is bigger than any of our attachments. I love Olcott, the center in America. I grew up on the property, I’ve walked every square foot, love every brick and have a storehouse of memories associated with it. To me, it is the center of all theosophical activity in America. Yet I have to recognize that it is still just a place, and will eventually disappear. But that doesn’t mean theosophical work in America will diminish. Change is inevitable.

I am very sympathetic to all those who love Adyar and want to protect it, who identify it with all the noble endeavors of theosophy in India. I understand the fear that John becoming President may endanger all that they’ve worked so hard for.

The truth is that we simply don’t know what effect John’s presidency would have on Adyar; all we can do is speculate. But we should be honest that the fear comes from our attachments, not our love and dedication.

The harder truth that must be faced is that if we base our decisions upon the importance of Adyar, Olcott, or any of the camps, lodges, study centers, etc., rather than the importance of theosophical work, we are doing a disservice to the very impulse that founded those special places.

K, you wrote that John must “overcome the personal limitations and attachments{to his place and relations} and work for the welfare of TS.”

That is exactly what we all need to do.

Again, thank you for participating in this dialogue and I look forward to further discussion.

krishnapriya:
Thank you for your response.

Can the following be taken as a reason?

Adyar is synonymous with TS.
With due respect to Indian Govt , TS Head quarters will become like a roman relic in the absence of a “living” president in adyar.

Radha attached to power??? NO i dont think so!!!

Mrs Radha, with her immense knowledge of Eastern philosophy , is not attached to the seat of presidency but she is certainly worried about- ‘ the future of TS with absentee President’.

TS is Radha’s baby and she doesnot want the baby to be looked after by computers.She has been a good nanny {mother} to TS and she is not willing to give her baby to a camera supervised device like computer, however efficient it might be .
We all agree the merits and demerits of Mother’s touch Vs Robots touch.

Mrs Radha’s concern should not be mis interpreted as her “attachment” to th power by trying hard to be the president AGAIN !

Mrs Radha, like a good mother , is just concerned about the welfare of the baby {TS}She would like to hand it over to someone who will nurture it and make it more beautiful in her absence.

If the elected president is residing elsewhere, the vibrations of dynamic leadership will get dissipated and TS might end up as :too many cooks spoil the broth.

Its not radha vs john .

Its Adyar vs other locations.

If at this point of time, John, wholeheartedly decides to shift to Adyar then scales may weigh in his favor.

For this he has to , like a good leader , overcome the personal limitations and attachments{to his place and relations} and work for the welfare of TS .Due to the peculiarities of the Indian govt , he has to physically be present at TS Adyar.

Its a great chance for him to make an excellent contribution to TS and blend modernism with this ancient organisation.

He can truly dedicate the rest of his life for giving birth to a stronger and more dynamic TS .He can also be an architect for the birth of a strong young TS who will carry this tradition of theosophy into posterity.

Its his call.

When I was 19 I received an invitation to participate in a new discussion group for members under 35, the Young Theosophists. The group grew over the years and took root. There was a ongoing newsletter, retreats were held in New York, Chicago and Washington, scholarships were generously provided. Some thirteen years later, many of us are still actively involved.

More can be done, naturally, but this is not an issue that the leadership is blind to. The problem is more in attracting younger people in the first place (which would necessitate a whole other discussion).

As far as devils we know, John is no stranger to those of us in the USA, having served as National President for nine years and in other positions of leadership for most of his life.

I’ve yet to hear a good, non-provincial argument for why he has less right to international leadership than Radha. Let’s not forget, he was chosen as V.P., so we can only assume Radha did not object to the idea of him becoming President someday.

Finally, and most importantly, I am in enthusiastic and full agreement with your statements that members should more actively participate in the process rather than simply throwing mud when elections come around! Part of the intention of this blog is to strengthen our grass roots efforts. Thanks for participating!

Why didnt the TS worked towards moulding enthusiastic youth interested in theosophy ,from all over the world to take over the reins of TS ?
Why are they flogging dead horses?

Didnt they forsee the aging-process’ of the present candidates for the election?

Is there no young blood left in TS?

If the answer to the above question is NO then better vote for a known devil than an unknown one , in this case Mrs Radha has better knowledge of the TS administration than than Algeo does And she will carry the tradition of TS as she is rooted in Adyar.

Atleast from this year onwards all the TS members must aim at participating actively in the admin process of TS and not just voice their opinions at the time of election.

Grass root levels have to be strengthned for a healthy democracy/
no point in slinging mud at candidates just before the elections.

And a word about Krishnamurthy…
Jiddu will survive with or without the feeble rumbling support of TS!!!
He is not at th mercy of people like Mrs Burnier or Algeo for his presence in this world.

He will lived without the support of TS and he will continue to live forever through his teachings and future generations will be able to appreciate his teachings even more than the past and present generations because of its natural evolution process.JK was ahead of his times and too intelligent for us!!!!!!!!!!!

Krishnapriya

Sorry, I misunderstood that in America there are other presidential candidates besides Betty Bland. I thought that your (Chris’) words “running unopposed” meant “running without evaluation/criticism”. It is a pity that there are no rivals for her and thus no real discussion about alternatives.

John Algeo has told to many international leaders at Adyar when he has visited there that he can’t live there because it is too hot and because the skin of his wife can’t stand the heat at all. Mostly he would attend only international conventions (and, of course, Co-Freemasonry and TOS meetings there about the same time). I don’t see this statement of his anywhere on the internet but it is true.

This is the reason why Algeo was not at all going to the international convention of the TS in December 2006, but he, being the Vice President, had to go there to give the presidential address. Radha got a stroke in November and couldn’t give the address.

That is why Radha wrote about this residence issue in her letter on 12 March this year http://groups.yahoo.com/group/theos-talk/message/43516
and that is why John says on his web site: “But the international rules do not require residence at Adyar for administrators”.

Betty Bland admitted in her letter to the General Secretaries on 19 March: “If elected, John may not be able to spend all his time at Adyar, but I have experienced him as an able administrator and delegator, and feel assured that Adyar would flourish under his leadership.”

In my knowledge Bland and Algeo have not told the membership clearly that John won’t live at Adyar.

Radha Burnier mentioned in her “On the Watch-Tower” column in The Theosophist, April 2008: “This (Adyar) is a place here all the Presidents have lived during the time they held the office”.